Zengobi Forums

[george]

Curio 8 is a major re-factoring of Curio's internals. This should make it much easier to support a future iOS port which wouldn't be possible with the current codebase.

We didn't want 3 versions of Curio at the MAS if possible and had hoped that in-app purchasing (IAP) would eventually be supported by the MAS and be our solution. Fortunately Apple did release it with Lion's launch, but it's only supported on Lion so Snow Leopard MAS customers wouldn't be able to use IAP.

Plus the IAP-related lawsuits are incredibly serious so we'd like to see that finalized.

Curio 8 will be Lion-only so IAP is a definitely possibility there assuming the patent mess is resolved.

Also, we'd like to know whether Apple plans to support paid-for major version upgrades. They don't on iOS and there's no indication on if or when they'll support it on the MAS.

Many other Mac application vendors (including Omnigroup and Panic) have indicated that they're hoping Apple provides something but they've heard no insider info. Otherwise the only solution is to direct customers back to their own stores for upgrades. This would be a shame as it means the MAS is simply a digital version of the physical Apple Store: good for new purchases but major upgrades are handled directly with the vendor's online store.

Lastly, MAS doesn't handle crossgrades (say, Core to Pro) but we were hoping IAP would help us there. The problem is combining IAP and major upgrades.

I appreciate the feedback and emails from everyone. Believe me, we're quite aware of iPads, iPhones, MAS, patents, etc, etc, etc. Apple doesn't make this easier considering their secretive nature but we're trying our best.

Now I really need to get back to work...

[joel.s]

Hi George,

It's interesting to see how Apple's management of the MAS changes all sorts of relationships between them, the developers and the users. As more credible app. stores emerge, Apple is clearly having to respond by relaxing some of the initial constraints.

I see today that Microsoft announced One-Note for the iPad with a required SkyDrive account and this not only indicates MS has to engage with the iOS platform directly but it also must have implications for a future Zengobi offering based on the next Curio release.

[george]

Yes, I'm playing with OneNote right now. What a small app! It's just 5MB in size.

The tradeoffs they've made are interesting. Simple pages with checkboxes, lists, and images but it appears to be all in long list format -- not freeform. Basically like a TextEdit on the iPad. No brushes/pens support. And you can't drag in any file "attachments" other than images. Oh and the lists are only one level of hierarchy, interesting. No table support as far as I can see. No flags, tags, dates, or other meta. Hey, no font support other than the default font! Huh, I can't make something bold or colored or larger font size? Wow. I also can't resize my embedded images. Bummer.

I don't own OneNote 2010 but I wonder how a large complex synced notebook created on Windows would render here on the iPad, if at all.

I guess this is a strong competitor to Evernote. Simple but nicely done. Very tidy interface.

[joel.s]

That's interesting, thanks for the observations. I have used OneNote briefly under XP but it didn't do a lot for me in that it still felt a bit 'stiff' given the premise of the design. I appreciate that it has a lot of fans among Windows users I know and I can also see why when they show me the competing products.

The issue of moving data around between devices is absolutely crucial. I get the most utility from those files I can share with a good level of compatibility between the iPad and the Mac. What this has triggered is often a redesign of the desktop versions for both better compatibility and improved accessibility as the lessons of the iPad are incorporated.

I sense a renaissance of Mac application design with many interesting new takes on old stagers.

[jshadow007]

I used OneNote daily at my previous job for two years, and I've got to say, I've yet to be impressed by their offerings for iOS. I can't really say how well it syncs with the desktop notebooks, but the entire charm of OneNote is how freeform it is (thought not as much as Curio!)

Once Curio 8 hits, I think we'll see a lot less acute need for an iPad version, especially if there's a more streamlined asset structure that's viewable on Dropbox etc. on the iPad, and there's a better, more automatic way of exporting the content of idea spaces for on-the-go viewing.

[Zentom]

Thanks to Curio my studies were a lot easier. I used it for storing and annotating my scripts and for organizing all the stuff around the exams and my thesis. Yes - I used to be an avid Curio user...

A few weeks ago, I got myself an iPad and wanted to use it. This included the wish to use it as a notepad as well.
Unfortunately you don't seem to be able to publish an iPad version even though lots of people already requested one and told you that the lack of a version for their favorite toy could drive them to a competitors software.

Well - that's exactly what happened to me... I switched to a different note taking and organizing software that runs on my iPad as well as on my Mac and keeps both versions in sync without any problems.
I am quite happy with this application even though I would have preferred to keep Curio as main tool.

Before I left I wanted to leave you something to think about:

- Of all the users of Curio, only a fraction will ever take the time to leave a message in the forum.

- Of all the disappointed users, only a very tiny fraction will ever leave a message in the forum before they abandon your software.

- Now imagine how many customers you silently already lost to the competition by not publishing a mobile version of your software - what a pity!

regards
tom
(who still hopes that Zengobi will bring out an iPad version while I still miss some of the great Curio features and haven't forgotten them)

[george]

Thanks for your feedback. As I mentioned earlier Curio 8 is a huge refactoring which should make it easier for me to port it to iOS. That's a key reason why I'm doing it.

[Zentom]

[george]

Curio 8 will come out when it's ready but there's no set date. Believe me, I'm eager to get started on an iOS solution as well. Sorry you're moving on but I certainly understand if you need something now.

[tombarys]

Dear George,
I really appreciate your effort. There is really a lack of apps that could be used as fully-equipped productivity suite based on visual approach. There are project-oriented apps, some GTD-oriented to-do lists, diagramming tools and mind-mapping tools.

The Curio could be simply "the app" which would connect these worlds without making it more complicated and without being just on a half-way in some aspects.

Why:
- mind-mapping tools support "tasks", but only on a very low and practically unusable level (E,F grade, they really do not see this?)
- general to-do lists does not allow clever, semantic "freestyle" visualising of tasks and outlines; lists, folders, outlines;

We publish books and run web on these topics (www.melvil.cz, www.mitvsehotovo.cz) and we talk with our readers. People often admit they "internally" see their "time axis", tasks, projects, priorities and plans as some kind of "bubbles", NOT as lists. They are forced to translate ideas into lists if they want to keep track of their structure, priority and due dates during a day. They love mind-mapping, but the process of collecting and organizing of tasks is forcefully separate from that.

The Curio does both (visualising: A grade, to-do feature: B-C grade) and could be even better in it in my opinion.

So the only thing which should be solved, is creating the iPhone/iPad companion apps – to make the Curio projects the natural part of our daily workflow (e.g. with inbox for collecting of "inputs", with task due-date filter, etc.) without leaving ability to see the tasks as "bubbles".

SORRY, EDIT, I forgot:
- the iPhone is ideal for collecting inputs, and organizing – not necessary to be SOOO visual and brainstorming
- the Mac app + iPad app could basically do both

Thanks for your effort again!
Tomáš

[NightStalker]

Sorry to be late joining this thread. I'm a long-ish time Curio user, and previously quite active here on the forums. But my use of Curio has slackened off somewhat, partially because it hasn't as yet got an iPad equivalent.

However, what does disturb me more than somewhat is the requirement to upgrade Max OS to Lion before being able to use Curio 8 which will then, presumably be the version that would sync with an iPad version.

To put it bluntly - I HATE Lion. I do NOT want to upgrade from Snow Leopard for several reasons, including some software I use which is not compatible with Lion. I hate the monotone greyness of Lion. I hate not having a "Save As" choice in lion for many reasons. There are lots of things I do not like about Lion.

Yet Apple are trying to force me into an upgrade if I want to continue syncing my calendars and contacts - we have a family subscription to MobileMe which will run out in June, and I can't migrate to iCloud unless I upgrade to Lion. No way..!

I do have one iMac which runs Lion - I did it without thinking as soon as Lion came out. So it's not as though I hate it but haven't tried it. I've managed to find several tweaks to make it as much like Snow Leopard as possible. I cannot, for the life of me, see the point in the silly Launchpad screen, when the iMac doesn't have a touch screen.... I'm quite happy using the dock, or the Applications folder.

So - to summarise, I won't be upgrading to Lion any time soon. So I will have to do without syncing via iCloud unless Apple bring iCloud compatibility to Snow Leopard. And I won't be upgrading to Curio 8 unfortunately, as I won't be running Lion.

All a bit of a bummer, really. I love Curio - but it ain't broke, so I'll just keep on using it as I have done for the last 3 or 4 years. But I would use it more if it were compatible with an iPad app....

[robwest]

Hey all -

I'm not saying this is a perfect replacement for an iPad Curio, but it sure is getting close for what I primarily use Curio for: outlining and mind mapping.

http://www.magicalpad.com/

Same free-form ideas for outline/mm placement, very nice outlining features, cloud syncing (DropBox, Google, etc.) - looks really nice.

I just picked it up for $0.99 on the app store. Worth a shot for a buck, I betcha.

The website is slick - with lots of great videos and tours, but it looks like the mind mapping functionality, while mentioned on the appstore page (with screenshots) hasn't made its way onto their website. Unfortunate, but I can understand - they have such a deep website, it will be tough to update it all!

I'll let you all know if I get on with it well. I'd love to hear if others are using it too.

Rob West

p.s. I'm not in any way affiliated with MagicalPad, just found it today, and got a little excited.

[bots]

just stepped by again to see if something new happened in direction of the iPad - my Macbook stays at home more often than before (and the iPad is the device-on-the-go for most of my colleagues out there, too) ... looks that the "post-pc" era just got really started - without Curio

as I read above: yes, really showing what happens in the future, so that Microsoft has to step up to iOS

[macfrankencow]

I'm moving almost exclusively my iPad too. I'm using a mashup of Keynote, Omnigraffle, and Notes Plus in lieu of Curio for iPad.

Fingers crossed for an iPad version after Curio 8 comes out!

[bots]

yes - I use NotesPlus a lot, too - really great app! besides a few more...

It's iPad 3 now, and I guess when it didn't happen up to now there is no interest in supporting iOS - I really dropped a lot of software since the iPad came out (because the developers had no interest in supporting iOS) and moved to software which is better supported in terms of future platforms. Times are a-changin' - and I haven't seen many notebooks in lectures, meetings and the like in the last 6 months.