Zengobi Forums

[cdimon]

I would love to see a flow-chart ability in-line with the mind mapping feature in place now (i.e. something simple and quick, but easily manipulated and customized).

What I imagine is you click the flow chart and a single box appears. You can write or copy text into the box.

You could then project a line in any orthogonal direction with a quick keypress (say command + alt + the appropriate arrow key). The line itself would default to a type you specify (e.g. with an arrow, bi-direction, etc.) or you could alter the line type ad hoc. At the end of each line would be a new text box.

As a parent you could quickly create children using the keys (if you hit command + alt + down twice for example, it would create two children of that parent, or reverse cmnd + alt + up would create two parents).

Ultimately, the default shape of each item could be tweaked (to be circular, triangular, square, rectangle, etc).

I suggest this because I need to quickly draw up flow charts and dependencies on a regular basis, and the mind map just doesn't quite show the hierarchy necessary for some processes/features.

[cdimon]

no replies or feedback?

[george]

That is a very good idea and a more automated way of constructing a flowchart in addition to the more manual approach now (drawing figures first then using sticky lines to connect them). Thanks for the feedback.

[dmkash]

Yes! I would love to see more help for flowcharting. I use Curio to organize all kinds of flotsam and jetsam related to development projects. There's already great features in Curio that are totally useful for flowcharting. Just need a few more shapes, better connectors, and its there!

[cdimon]

Out of curiosity - how often does Zengobi update Curio with new features? Do they implement small, iterative changes along with their bug fixes?

I looked back over the last few major updates to get a sense of how often they update, but as a newer user, I was wondering if there is a better historical sense on this.

[george]

We try do a major update every year or so (Curio 3, Curio 4, Curio 5), then a handful of minor releases after the major release (3.1, 3.2). So we're kind of following in the Apple-style year releases (iLife '06, iLife '07, iLife '0 but with minor updates in-between for some features that didn't make the major version cut.

[cdimon]

George,

That sounds great - looking through the update history, you guys definitely seem to key on the fundamentals to insure they're done well which is nice to see.

I have to say, I am totally enamored with this product, and if/when organic flowcharts make it into the mix, I will be a very happy user.

Thanks!

[cdimon]

I wanted to update this post with some new information on a great way to handle quick hierarchy/WBS/org chart creations...

I have been having to diagram networks and the like, which I typically did in Visio but have since move to OmniGraffle. One of the neater features (I think) is that you can quickly create things like org charts through the use of an outline.

As you type in things on the outline, it will create the box (or dependency) at the appropriate level. As you nest items in the outline list (must like curio lists) the map gets built out appropriately.

Among the many non-curio esque things it lacks with regards to this feature is an auto sizing text box (text isn't handled well as words will be broken mid-word and you'll have to manually adjust the box to reform the word).

Basically, all that we need is for the mind-map feature at present be able to have a top-down or bottom-up orientation in addition to its starburst form that it does now. You could basically click a formation and the mind-map would adjust into a top-down structure, etc.

[Khechog]

Hi - XMind has a nifty feature which lets you change how the programme organises your information. You can choose from fishbone/mind map/org chart/spreadsheet and others and Xmind automatically re-jigs things into the selected display type - which if I understand right is what's being talked about in this thread. I wanted to add this note as I personally find the spreadsheet & fishbone views in Xmind very useful. The programme as a whole isn't powerful enough to use for project management, but I was amazed how this feature helped me to get a grip on my information in different ways. Tables are suitable for certain needs, the fishbone for others. It really helped. To be honest once I've brainstormed with a mind map I find them too 'random' - but re-entering all that info into another structure is a waste of time.

Thanks, Khechog

[Keith]

Hi, Can I bump this feature request and add some thoughts from my experience of process analysis and design, using:
a. Mind Manager: for process workshops with non-technical, subject matter experts
b. Omnigraffle (and Visio): for 'cleaned-up' flow-chart models for non-technical audiences
c. Visual Paradigm's Agilian: for more robust, systems-engineering process design (with BPMN standards, etc).

Curio could certainly play well in scenarios (a) and (b) and I'm currently migrating to Curio as my preferred tool for this. The following additions to the Mind Map toolset would be of immense help here:
1. Alternative map topologies: as 'maps', org charts (top-down 'layers' - great for organisational, functional and process breakdowns), 'all right' (a visual outline) or 'all left' (a specialist visual outline for project planning, using the tunnel time-line approach where the project converges onto the last milestone node)
2. Force node-level growth direction: so that at any point in a map, the node's child node topology can be set as in (1)
3. Add figure to relationship arrows: so that the flow (or relationship) between map nodes can be documented - with a map or list. (Imagine the 'Insert Midpoint' contextual menu being augmented with 'Insert Text/Map/List, which would effectively split the line/arrow with an intermediary figure)
4. Convert text to (Index card - and thence to) map or list, so that in (3), a simple label can be extended into an outline. This would be a great way to trap user stories around process interfaces and hand-overs.

I have documented literally hundreds of processes using Mind Manager's org chart or 'all topics right' modes, using inter-node relationships with embedded outlines, to indicate flows and whilst I can now emulate this effect using Curio, it would be great to have the above features as standard.
Best,
Keith..

[alecmce]

Bump.

It's pretty disheartening that this has never been done, while more colorful and less meaningful changes have been implemented. I am one update away from removing Curio and trying something else - creating flowcharts is too much work with Curio right now. I'm almost at the point of just using Illustrator

[jshadow007]

For basic flowcharting needs, I generally find that creating a figure (index card, list, or just plain old text, styled however I like) and using the shortcut to create an attached figure works well enough. Simply command click anywhere else on the idea space, and an attached figure will be created. It's not quite as simple as mind-mapping, but it's pretty quick, and you can customize the line types after you've mapped things a bit.

[basfimoo]

I have found that the best option for creating something like a flow chart in Curio right now (Curio 7) is to write my flow chart as an outline and then convert it to an org chart. It is not completely satisfactory though. If it was more customizable (ie, if I could easily click and drag bubble around) I would be able to use the flowcharts I create directly in a presentation. As it is, I still recreate nicer looking work flow charts in Keynote if I want to include them in a presentation.

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[ChristopherGrant]

+1 to automated flowchart creation

Though it's not alltogether impossible to create something decent now